So we’re just going to hash this out every single day for the next 2 years, huh?
Edit: I do find it interesting how many replies to this comment are vague enough that you can’t determine which side of this argument they’re on, but I guess I did start it myself.
As long as the neo-liberal leaders of the Democrats continue to play the same games with the left as they have been since before I can vote, yes, we’ll have to run into this argument every single damn time elections come up. When they decide to embrace progressive policies instead of just jigging the bait for the leftists to get their votes. When the Dems win, they didn’t need the left. When they lose, it’s all the left’s fault. I’m not playing that sadistic little game anymore.
And yet still in 2028 we’re going to have people arguing between the milquetoast Democrat and a republican who wants to make camps for undesirables and telling anyone left of center to stay home.
And we’re also going to have any centrist telling people that they should’ve spoken up before, while telling people to shut up, and accept the inevitable milquetoast Democrat now. I remember how much we used to make fun of FOX News for whataboutism. How the hell did the Democrat voters become the party of “What about Trump?”
How the hell did the Democrat voters become the party of “What about Trump?”
It’s not “what about trump” it’s “vote for the person closest to you or get the one the farthest away”
I could give a fuck less about trump, and I’m going to be hungover the day after he chokes to death on a hamburder. I care about advancing left wing goals, and crying you didn’t get your way and staying home only hurts that.
Grow the fuck up and actually understand how electoral politics works in this country, because it seems you lack a basic understanding of how the two party system works. We have 2 viable options for the presidency, and people need to come to grips with not getting their perfect candidate because perfect is the enemy of good. If you don’t believe me, look around and tell me what of the current trash fire would have also been done by a milquetoast dem?
I understand the US electoral system very well. For example, in the WV Dem primary, Bernie won every single county, and 40k more votes than Clinton. Which is why Clinton won the state. And it does seem to be “What about Trump” since you can’t give me a reason to vote for a milquetoast Democrat without including Trump in your equation. Also, both Obama and Biden deported way more immigrants than Trump, so if you’re trying to harm reduction, Trump is a better option for that. Stop letting Democrats that want to increase funding for ICE, the border wall, are for regime change wars, and deport more immigrants than Trump be the spoiler candidate.
Also, both Obama and Biden deported way more immigrants than Trump, so if you’re trying to harm reduction, Trump is a better option for that.
Man, I can’t wait to come back to this statement at the end of the year, DaMummy. I’m sure the guy who is mass rounding up random people (instead of rejecting people at the border) and murdering people in the street will TOTALLY be the harm reduction president, no matter that 2025 was the deadliest year ice has had since 2004, trump is about ✨harm reduction✨
The fact that this and bitching about Bernie after 10 years is your primary argument tells me you’re not worth conversing with. I wanted Bernie to win and I was mad about it too. But keeping your hardon for Bernie is only harming the causes you say you support. At least the right is open about their hatred for their fellow man, you’re hiding behind being upset at the system and arguing that this fucking president is about harm reduction at all, which is laughable.
Please do come back. I would prefer after his 4 year term, but I don’t know if lemmy will be around, or either of us(…and one other guy) but just to set a standard, how many deportations were there under Obama, aka, Deporter in Chief, and how many were there under Biden?
Biden had more raw numbers, but can you tell me who was incarcerated, picked up off the street or refused at the border in those numbers?
If you’re comparing raw numbers and not what each one is, I don’t care to continue the argument because you’re focused on one statistic that can be used disingenuously (as it is here) to conflate two different ways of handling things. Because if you think 1 border return or incarcerated person is the same as someone being snatched off the street, your opinion is meaningless to me. I’m not defending any one of those, but comparing them is dishonest as hell.
OK, well I can’t wait for the comparison if you can’t tell me the number Trump is aiming to surpass. Or at least how many ICE deportations there were under Biden/Obama, not CPB. Can you at least assure me that Trump will start as many wars as Obama did, or will that also be a harm reduction example?
Unpopular opinion. When it comes to electoral politics, that centrist is right. Voting won’t fix anything. Only better candidates and parties will. That is, of course, outside of some sort of revolution or cultural awakening. And if that’s your plan, shit or get off the pot.
The general election is absolutely the wrong time to protest vote.The right time to protest vote is in the primary. The primary is the wrong time to think about running. The right time to think about running is all the years before the primary. All things many actually on the left struggle to achieve. And then being incensed when a party that doesn’t represent you doesn’t represent you. Who could have known?
We’re good about protesting on the left. Perhaps to a fault. But outside maybe the DSA. We suck at getting people we would want to vote for, in organizations that stand a chance of winning. You can’t effectively elect someone who wants to represent you if there’s no one capable of winning that wants to. And it isn’t a catch 22. Collectively a lot are sleeping on basic actions we should be taking.
Forget third parties till we reform the voting system. They think we are cuckoo. Maybe we should start acting like cuckoos. Maybe we should stop being the ones being cucked, supporting and raising politicians that don’t represent us. And start doing the cucking ourselves. Like the DSA. Put people we want to vote for in any major party primary we can. Yes, even Republican. Till then they aren’t going to represent us if they don’t have to.
I agree completely. Though I personally practice harm reduction at the ballot box, I don’t believe that brow-beating people who express a reluctance to vote for a lesser evil into practicing harm reduction is an effective means of garnering their vote. Though it’s easy to become frustrated with non-voters or third-party voters and place the blame on them for fascism taking over, the responsibility is really spread across the whole population, and most importantly our electeds and party officials who have consistently failed to present a positive and opposing narrative to the fascists.
So we’re just going to hash this out every single day for the next 2 years, huh?
Edit: I do find it interesting how many replies to this comment are vague enough that you can’t determine which side of this argument they’re on, but I guess I did start it myself.
As long as the neo-liberal leaders of the Democrats continue to play the same games with the left as they have been since before I can vote, yes, we’ll have to run into this argument every single damn time elections come up. When they decide to embrace progressive policies instead of just jigging the bait for the leftists to get their votes. When the Dems win, they didn’t need the left. When they lose, it’s all the left’s fault. I’m not playing that sadistic little game anymore.
And yet still in 2028 we’re going to have people arguing between the milquetoast Democrat and a republican who wants to make camps for undesirables and telling anyone left of center to stay home.
And we’re also going to have any centrist telling people that they should’ve spoken up before, while telling people to shut up, and accept the inevitable milquetoast Democrat now. I remember how much we used to make fun of FOX News for whataboutism. How the hell did the Democrat voters become the party of “What about Trump?”
It’s not “what about trump” it’s “vote for the person closest to you or get the one the farthest away”
I could give a fuck less about trump, and I’m going to be hungover the day after he chokes to death on a hamburder. I care about advancing left wing goals, and crying you didn’t get your way and staying home only hurts that.
Grow the fuck up and actually understand how electoral politics works in this country, because it seems you lack a basic understanding of how the two party system works. We have 2 viable options for the presidency, and people need to come to grips with not getting their perfect candidate because perfect is the enemy of good. If you don’t believe me, look around and tell me what of the current trash fire would have also been done by a milquetoast dem?
I understand the US electoral system very well. For example, in the WV Dem primary, Bernie won every single county, and 40k more votes than Clinton. Which is why Clinton won the state. And it does seem to be “What about Trump” since you can’t give me a reason to vote for a milquetoast Democrat without including Trump in your equation. Also, both Obama and Biden deported way more immigrants than Trump, so if you’re trying to harm reduction, Trump is a better option for that. Stop letting Democrats that want to increase funding for ICE, the border wall, are for regime change wars, and deport more immigrants than Trump be the spoiler candidate.
Man, I can’t wait to come back to this statement at the end of the year, DaMummy. I’m sure the guy who is mass rounding up random people (instead of rejecting people at the border) and murdering people in the street will TOTALLY be the harm reduction president, no matter that 2025 was the deadliest year ice has had since 2004, trump is about ✨harm reduction✨
The fact that this and bitching about Bernie after 10 years is your primary argument tells me you’re not worth conversing with. I wanted Bernie to win and I was mad about it too. But keeping your hardon for Bernie is only harming the causes you say you support. At least the right is open about their hatred for their fellow man, you’re hiding behind being upset at the system and arguing that this fucking president is about harm reduction at all, which is laughable.
Please do come back. I would prefer after his 4 year term, but I don’t know if lemmy will be around, or either of us(…and one other guy) but just to set a standard, how many deportations were there under Obama, aka, Deporter in Chief, and how many were there under Biden?
Biden had more raw numbers, but can you tell me who was incarcerated, picked up off the street or refused at the border in those numbers?
If you’re comparing raw numbers and not what each one is, I don’t care to continue the argument because you’re focused on one statistic that can be used disingenuously (as it is here) to conflate two different ways of handling things. Because if you think 1 border return or incarcerated person is the same as someone being snatched off the street, your opinion is meaningless to me. I’m not defending any one of those, but comparing them is dishonest as hell.
OK, well I can’t wait for the comparison if you can’t tell me the number Trump is aiming to surpass. Or at least how many ICE deportations there were under Biden/Obama, not CPB. Can you at least assure me that Trump will start as many wars as Obama did, or will that also be a harm reduction example?
Unpopular opinion. When it comes to electoral politics, that centrist is right. Voting won’t fix anything. Only better candidates and parties will. That is, of course, outside of some sort of revolution or cultural awakening. And if that’s your plan, shit or get off the pot.
The general election is absolutely the wrong time to protest vote.The right time to protest vote is in the primary. The primary is the wrong time to think about running. The right time to think about running is all the years before the primary. All things many actually on the left struggle to achieve. And then being incensed when a party that doesn’t represent you doesn’t represent you. Who could have known?
We’re good about protesting on the left. Perhaps to a fault. But outside maybe the DSA. We suck at getting people we would want to vote for, in organizations that stand a chance of winning. You can’t effectively elect someone who wants to represent you if there’s no one capable of winning that wants to. And it isn’t a catch 22. Collectively a lot are sleeping on basic actions we should be taking.
Forget third parties till we reform the voting system. They think we are cuckoo. Maybe we should start acting like cuckoos. Maybe we should stop being the ones being cucked, supporting and raising politicians that don’t represent us. And start doing the cucking ourselves. Like the DSA. Put people we want to vote for in any major party primary we can. Yes, even Republican. Till then they aren’t going to represent us if they don’t have to.
whether you agree with them or not, shaming and ridiculing them is not going to make them agree with you.
I agree completely. Though I personally practice harm reduction at the ballot box, I don’t believe that brow-beating people who express a reluctance to vote for a lesser evil into practicing harm reduction is an effective means of garnering their vote. Though it’s easy to become frustrated with non-voters or third-party voters and place the blame on them for fascism taking over, the responsibility is really spread across the whole population, and most importantly our electeds and party officials who have consistently failed to present a positive and opposing narrative to the fascists.
The older I get the more relevant this scene from ‘Life Of Brian’ becomes.
https://youtu.be/WboggjN_G-4
The dumber the dog, the more repetitions it takes to teach it.