The shit some people will go to to avoid an open platform.
They named themselves W but those draconian ID requirements are an L
Looks like W is being built on ATProto.
For non-believers in that format of social media, is ATProto good or bad?
The basic building block of the Fediverse is the instance, right? Every instance is its own self-contained, centralized social media service that optionally interacts with other instances. EG Trump’s Truth Social is a Mastodon instance that does not federate.
ATProto takes a more radical approach. Everything is modular. There is no instance or anything that is complete in itself. It’s more like the WWW. You can make websites in different ways. These are made findable through search engines like Google or Bing, which are not affiliated with companies offering web hosting.
ATProto takes everything apart. It tries to avoid choke points or lock-in as far as possible to thwart monopolies. You have a server that stores your data (posts, etc …), called a PDS. You can move your data to a different server. An identity provider tells others where your account is at any moment. A relay collects all the posts that people make and makes them available for further processing. This can be used to create algorithmic feeds, or moderation (aka labelling). These things are independent of each other and can be independently offered by different parties. You can pick and chose which to use, though there isn’t a whole lot of choice yet.
ETA: No idea what W wants to offer in that regard.
Thanks for taking the time to explain.
Follow-up question : doesn’t ATProto run into the same issue as Bluesky for example, where even though the protocol allows for decentralization, the vast majority of users are on the same servers, thus negating the pros of decentralization?
I feel like this would be the case here where one server will contain all the modules.
Bluesky itself is behind ATProto
Make of that what you will
So, my main takeaway is that ATProto basically splits user authentication and content storage and feed algorithm? Like, these are 3 separate things?
You can have your own authentication server at home that basically just says that you are you (similar to a cryptographic identity), then you can store your content on google cloud and then use a 3rd-party feed algorithm?
I hate X, but good luck with this:
The new platform, W, will require identification and photo validation to ensure that its users are both humans and who they claim to be,
Europeans will absolutely not fight back on it and will comply willingly with zero hesitation, unfortunately
Lol, what? Nobody will use this.
I mean among other platforms one where the identity is guaranteed would be nice.
It’s not like every other platform would be blocked. But I would like to see if it would even be different.
Isn’t this just some random company trying to cash in a little from controversy surrounding Xitter?
will require identification and photo validation
With all the privacy issues in the past few years, it’s “dead on arrival” as they say.
Yup. It will fail spectacularly.
Too bad cuz it could have legit beaten Xitter.
If distributing child pornography can’t get people off Xitter, nothing will.
It will probably fail silently, if it doesn’t pick up enough momentum. * Sad failed platform noises *
W formerly known as useless garbage nobody asked for.
Any for-profit company will have to comply with this, unfortunately.
But none of them ever asked me for a photo or ID.
Are you in the EU?
Yes of course.
Uh, Mastodon exists?
I’m assuming they want to compete with X/Twitter.
… so you don’t think Mastodon is a worthy competitor?
How about Bluesky?
I like Mastodon but it can’t compete with X. The lack of discoverability is non-starter for many. Its greatest benefits are also its biggest barriers to mainstream appeal.
Bluesky says it’s decentralized, but at the end of the day it’s an American company.
They just aren’t the right tools for this particular job. What this “W social” wants to be is “European Twitter”.
The lack of discoverability is non-starter for many.
The Fediverse significantly lacks behind on the Content Discoverability technology.
I guess this is because there was a loud public outcry in the last 20 years that whoever makes your feed (this is called an “recommendation algorithm” or abbreviated “the algorithm”) has a lot of political power to decide what you see and what you don’t see, and that’s frowned upon. Because everybody that has power over what you see and what you don’t see is bad. That is why nobody wanted to provide an recommendation algorithm for the fediverse, because they would expose themselves to wild accusations. There should be an open-source recommendation algorithm, though; I’m sure of it.
what in particular do you mean by lack of discoverability?
like, i want to see posts from communities that i already subscribed to, but because there’s more than 1000 communities on the fediverse and i’m only subscribed to a small countable subset of them, i inevitably lose out on a lot of content. (The “all” feed sucks unfortunately). So how to solve this?
Then it sounds more like they want to be the European next Bluesky.
If they built out a Mastodon network with government support, then it would.
will require identification and photo validation
Straight from the book “How to kill your app before launch”, page 1.
data privacy at its core
Looks like they haven’t seen the obvious conflict with requiring id + photo, unless they plan on manually review every application.
After reading the article, it sounds like they’re just making yet another xitter clone with the hopes that govt figures will use it. Govts could just spin their own mastodon or similars for a similar effect.
After reading the article, it sounds like they’re just making yet another xitter clone with the hopes that govt figures will use it.
Nothing puts me off more than advocating for a new product or set of technology without reasonably comparing it to already-existing technology. They should dedicate a section of their homepage to an explanation what’s the difference between their system and Mastodon.
Yup. Nothing and I say nothing makes a service less secure for privacy than requiring your ID and photo. That data will get leaked. It always does.
Most of EU countries has some sort of electronic identification system (in Italy SPID and CIE). You can simply ask to validate against it when creating an account and then you are good. You are verified and there is no dato to be leaked aside the data you decide to put into the system.
Considering the amount of bots and trolls everywhere I can see a certain appeal on an app that requires an id verification to be honest.
There needs to be high-quality discussion about how to make sure that users of social media platforms are humans instead of bots, but it needs to be a discussion happening in the open and not behind closed doors.
Right now, the approach is to not talk about it and assume that verification can only happen via photo. It could also be done in different ways, such as using a QR code that you get at a supermarket; or by only allowing 1 user account per physical device (which would make bot accounts expensive). There’s lots of possible ways and none of them are discussed.
But if they’re doing it half-assed as most services (send photo of passport, take a selfie), it won’t be a challenge for AI to generate random IDs and a matching avatar for photo/video verification. The only way this could work is if they’d verify your ID by reading the NFC chip inside the passport or ID card.
True. I’d be up for that, but honestly more for a real social network for friends and family, like Facebook once was, than for a debate forum like Twitter. That demand could maybe endure that it would remain a friends only network…
to ensure that its users are […] who they claim to be
I dont’t want that either. Maybe for verified accounts this makes sense, but not for the average shitposter.
They figured it out. They damn well know they are going to spy on everyone with this.
Spyware disguised as a “social media platform”, hard pass.
cough cough Mastodon.
deleted by creator
https://ec.social-network.europa.eu/@EUCommission
It has over 3k posts and 145k followers. Mastodon posts don’t federate to lemmy unless they tag a lemmy community
I stand corrected. Thank you.
If you don’t delete your comment next time, others can see what stands corrected ;-)
Clicking the original link shows 0 subscribers and 0 posts on a two year old community.
There is no future in social media unless it’s decentralized. Gonna assume this is dead on arrival.
You didn’t read the text? It says decentralized.
I have little faith that means what you think it means.
Governments making this stuff instead of the people? Really bad idea.
Oh because people did such a good job the first time?
Anything people make, no mater how good, can and has been purchased to be turned to shit and controlled by those that purchase it. In that world, which is the one we live in now, a government made and publicly used social media service is just about the only way to create a resilient and uncorruptable form of social media. Especially compared to current alternatives that are already getting corrupted.
I’m not saying what they’ll make is perfect. But it’s far better than any other option we currently have. Knee jerk reacting to assuming it’s bad is very much the same crux billionaires used in the US to weaken the government that would otherwise regulate them.
A government is literally the best suited to creating this tech due to its public utility. Same with electricity, water, Emergency services, roads and more. Everyone uses them, so our taxes should go to making those things better.
This is a step in the right direction.
it’s far better than any other option we currently have.
We have the Fediverse. Brother, you’re literally on it right now.
Well said. I am certainly here for a reason :)
This isn’t actually a government doing it. It’s just some VC backed company that went to Davos to announce it.
Fair point. But I think you’re burying the promising parts of this article:
W’s data will be hosted decentrally in Europe by European companies, and the platform will adhere to strict EU data protection laws.
“We believe there is an urgent need for a new social media platform built, governed and hosted in Europe. With human verification, free speech and data privacy at its core,” she wrote.
In her LinkedIn post announcing the launch of W, Zeiter emphasized that systemic disinformation is eroding public trust and weakening democratic decision-making.
I’ve never heard an Elon say that.
And her background is solid compared to tech bros:
She earned her PhD in law at the University of Hamburg and later studied at Stanford University.
W will be legally the subsidiary of “We Don’t Have Time,” a media platform for climate action, but the team is scattered across Europe, with offices in Berlin and Paris planned, Bilanz reports.
And the whole platform is legally under a company dedicated towards climate action.
Lot of wins in this article make me think it’s far from the typical VC billionaire babysitting service.
So a Mastodon ripoff, but its instances hosted by a single entity (effectively centralized): ensuring all instances residing within the European jurisdiction (allowing for full control over it). I don’t see how they genuinely believe, to have humans do the photo validation, when competing at the scale of X; especially when you run all the instances. Perhaps they could recruit volunteers to socialize the losses, as the platform privatizes the profits. Nothing but a privacy-centric approach however: said the privacy expert…
Zeiter emphasized that systemic disinformation is eroding public trust and weakening democratic decision-making … W will be legally the subsidiary of “We Don’t Have Time,” a media platform for climate action … A group of 54 members of the European Parliament [primarily Greens/EFA, Renew, The Left] called for European alternatives
If that doesn’t sound like a recipe, for swinging the pendulum to the other extreme (once more), I don’t know what does… Because can you imagine, a modern social media platform, not being a political echo chamber: not promoting extremism by use of filter bubbles, and instead allowing for deescalation through counter argumentation. One would almost start to think, for it all to be intentional: as a deeply divided population will never stand united, against their common oppressor.
I think they’re automating the photo validation. The CEO mentioned something about giving back by releasing their facial recognition solution or something in the interview at Davos.
I am staying on mastodon for the micro blogging, not interested in centralized shit. Also, recommander systems are a plague.
