I agree, and feel similarly about the inclusion of operation Northwoods.
It’s most prominently a horrifying plan that was rejected and remained classified, with the proposer being replaced shortly afterwards (it’s entirely possible that’s a coincidence).
Someone thinking of something horrible and then not doing it isn’t evidence that they would do something similar. There’s no particular reason to think they hid evidence because they admitted in the same deeply classified documents to doing far worse things.
There’s no precedent at all. Precedent implies that it happened, which it didn’t.
Something being thought of and dismissed is just not evidence for that thing being done.
It’s not like it was even that original of an idea. There had been two plane hijackings by cubans in the past year. Proposing “what if a third went wrong” is hardly a masterclasses in outside the box thinking.
We’ve done other false flag operations. Other terrible things to domestic civilians.
Using that time we didn’t actually do anything as an example is just odd.
Personally, I think people like it just because it has a cooler name. “Mongoose” just doesn’t have the same ring.
I know, and you don’t need to point to Operation Northwoods to “prove” anything because American Government officials have proposed much worse things and have done much worse things.
Like MacArthur proposed using nukes like conventional bombs to completely irradiate the Korean - Chinese Border. This would not merely kill Millions, perhaps billions, but it would cause a nuclear winter. For that, MacArthur was dismissed. That was a proposal.
What people forget is that MacArthur fired upon American World War One vets protesting to get their War bonuses because of the depression during the Bonus War. You don’t need to make up conspiracies, what governments have already done/doing are bad enough.
For MacArthur, that plan, while horrific, wasn’t as bad as you’re painting it, if only because the bombs would have been much lower yield than modern nukes.
It would kill millions, especially if he used ground burst instead of air burst, but the actual global effect would be negligible. Cancer rates would spike in Northern Japan, but the fallout would mostly be over water.
Air burst would have even less effect, because there would be no fallout. (fallout is stuff from the ground that gets mixed with the radioactive material and free neutrons in a ground burst nuclear explosion, it’s heavy so it falls out)
Still an insane plan and MacArthur was justly fired for it and a bunch of other similar insanity, I just wish the Dulles brothers had been similarly fired for the shit they pulled.
You do know that uranium oxide is water soluble right? The ocean has more radioactive material in it than the land does, also water is very good at blocking radiation. That’s why it’s used for spent fuel cooling pools.
So the physics says that if you’re going to have fallout, the ocean is the best place for it. Provided that the fallout doesn’t float. Then it will most likely end up washing up on the shores of Japan.
The key here is that the bombs available in 1950 were orders of magnitude weaker than modern nukes.
Castle Brovo alone was stronger than every bomb from the MacArthur plan combined.
Using hundreds of Castle Brovo sized bombs would fuck up the world, using the bombs MacArthur had access to? Not as much.
And? What happened next? Did they do an operation Northwoods? Did we go to war with Cuba? Was Johnson more aggressive on Cuba than Kennedy, or was he actually more engaged on diplomatic fronts?
I’m not forgetting anything. It just doesn’t fit with any narrative that makes a lick of goddamned sense. Like, Kennedy rejected Northwoods because he was worried the troops might be needed in Europe, so starting a war in Cuba would be a bad move.
He was strongly in favor of every other operation they proposed as part of the larger plan.
Why would a massive conspiracy exist to kill Kennedy for rejecting a plan and then… Not do the plan?
I agree, and feel similarly about the inclusion of operation Northwoods.
It’s most prominently a horrifying plan that was rejected and remained classified, with the proposer being replaced shortly afterwards (it’s entirely possible that’s a coincidence).
Someone thinking of something horrible and then not doing it isn’t evidence that they would do something similar. There’s no particular reason to think they hid evidence because they admitted in the same deeply classified documents to doing far worse things.
Many more horrifying plans have been accepted and are unclassified (e.g.Manhattan project).
The point is that precedent exists for hijacking planes for false flag purposes.
There’s no precedent at all. Precedent implies that it happened, which it didn’t.
Something being thought of and dismissed is just not evidence for that thing being done.
It’s not like it was even that original of an idea. There had been two plane hijackings by cubans in the past year. Proposing “what if a third went wrong” is hardly a masterclasses in outside the box thinking.
We’ve done other false flag operations. Other terrible things to domestic civilians.
Using that time we didn’t actually do anything as an example is just odd.
Personally, I think people like it just because it has a cooler name. “Mongoose” just doesn’t have the same ring.
It did. A plan was formed to the level it could be presented to the president. That happened.
The original part is hijacking your own plane to blame it on another nation as a false flag operation.
OK. So now you admit that there is a precedent for attacking our own people. I think we can close the discussion.
MK-Ultra is the coolest conspiracy name. Operation Paperclip is the most boring sounding.
I know, and you don’t need to point to Operation Northwoods to “prove” anything because American Government officials have proposed much worse things and have done much worse things.
Like MacArthur proposed using nukes like conventional bombs to completely irradiate the Korean - Chinese Border. This would not merely kill Millions, perhaps billions, but it would cause a nuclear winter. For that, MacArthur was dismissed. That was a proposal.
What people forget is that MacArthur fired upon American World War One vets protesting to get their War bonuses because of the depression during the Bonus War. You don’t need to make up conspiracies, what governments have already done/doing are bad enough.
For MacArthur, that plan, while horrific, wasn’t as bad as you’re painting it, if only because the bombs would have been much lower yield than modern nukes.
It would kill millions, especially if he used ground burst instead of air burst, but the actual global effect would be negligible. Cancer rates would spike in Northern Japan, but the fallout would mostly be over water.
Air burst would have even less effect, because there would be no fallout. (fallout is stuff from the ground that gets mixed with the radioactive material and free neutrons in a ground burst nuclear explosion, it’s heavy so it falls out)
Still an insane plan and MacArthur was justly fired for it and a bunch of other similar insanity, I just wish the Dulles brothers had been similarly fired for the shit they pulled.
Ah, great, no fallout, fuck that is great super lets detonate millions and the radiatorn will go in the ocean yay it’s not so bad yay
You do know that uranium oxide is water soluble right? The ocean has more radioactive material in it than the land does, also water is very good at blocking radiation. That’s why it’s used for spent fuel cooling pools.
So the physics says that if you’re going to have fallout, the ocean is the best place for it. Provided that the fallout doesn’t float. Then it will most likely end up washing up on the shores of Japan.
The key here is that the bombs available in 1950 were orders of magnitude weaker than modern nukes.
Castle Brovo alone was stronger than every bomb from the MacArthur plan combined.
Using hundreds of Castle Brovo sized bombs would fuck up the world, using the bombs MacArthur had access to? Not as much.
You’re forgetting that the singular person responsible for the decision not to do it was assassinated shortly after…
And? What happened next? Did they do an operation Northwoods? Did we go to war with Cuba? Was Johnson more aggressive on Cuba than Kennedy, or was he actually more engaged on diplomatic fronts?
I’m not forgetting anything. It just doesn’t fit with any narrative that makes a lick of goddamned sense. Like, Kennedy rejected Northwoods because he was worried the troops might be needed in Europe, so starting a war in Cuba would be a bad move.
He was strongly in favor of every other operation they proposed as part of the larger plan.
Why would a massive conspiracy exist to kill Kennedy for rejecting a plan and then… Not do the plan?
He was killed by the oil industry, with a plan carried out by George HW Bush