As much I agree with the idea of abandoning Discord - honestly, fuck 'em - I just don’t know how I or many other people could practically make the full switch… While I might be able to convince a few of my close friends to go with me to whatever new platform comes about, there’s just no way any larger communities would be able to uproot and leave without losing 90%+ of their members, and that’s only if the owners of those communities are even willing to leave in the first place. Inertia is a powerful thing, and the reality of the situation is that the vast majority of Discord users will not be convinced to leave over this.
I want to defend my privacy, and I want to tell these corporate ghouls to shove it, but at the same time, I don’t want to become a digital hermit. Having to decide between protecting my privacy and cutting myself off from so many valued social connections and communities feels like an impossible choice.
I know I’m not saying anything particularly new or actionable here, I’m just… tired. I’m tired of having to flee from platform after platform into increasingly smaller and more insular corners of the internet to escape the endless cycle of enshittification. I’m tired of what the internet has become, where the only places left where you can exist without being manipulated and exploited by corporate interests are a handful of small, decentralized platforms that are becoming increasingly cut off from the internet at large. I’m just tired of this shit, man.
On this note, I lost contact with a huge number of friends when I deleted my facebook ~15 years ago. Similar for livejournal. I handed out my email address and phone number before I walked away, but people have not used those to contact me at all.
I think people don’t want to put any effort into socialisation. Getting a “feed” is so easy, it feels like you’re connecting with people. You see the comments and likes. But everyone is lonely because they’re not actively interacting, just passively consuming.
“I handed out my email address and phone number before I walked away, but people have not used those to contact me at all.”
Man, do I feel this.
I experienced the exact same thing when I left Facebook. Exactly 3 people I knew from FB bother to keep in touch. I had one friend tell me. Who will bother when I leave Discord?
I truly despise what big tech/social media has turned us into: convenience junkies.
Thanks, this article was great. I guess I’ll finally check out XMPP, cause Matrix was… really mid when I tried it a few months ago and put me off. SimpleX was a mess too.
Side note, I get that the movim UI/Client is web only, but does that mean I can’t access Conversations.im (I know the app/client itself is Android only) on movim? I feel a little ashamed that I can’t understand this…
I feel a little ashamed that I can’t understand this…
Nothin’ to be ashamed of, we’re all newbies to this at first. I had to learn it too :p
Part 1: How XMPP servers differ from XMPP Clients
Okay, so: Movim and Conversations are both clients that can be used to login to any XMPP account. Those two clients in particular are a little bit more confusing than normal, because they also offer free XMPP accounts on their own XMPP servers (which are independent of the client software).
To try to liken it to something familiar, it’d be like if the Thunderbird email client (which you can login to any email account with) also happened to offer a separate email hosting service too, so you could login to your SomeReallyCoolUsername@thunderbird[.]com from the Thunderbird app.
Or to liken it to how lemmy works, if you’re familiar with the Photon front-end, it can access any lemmy account, even your blahaj account, as it’s just an independent front-end, it’s not actually hosting the lemmy server itself.
Part 2: How it works in practice
So in practice, if you create an XMPP account on Movim’s server, you can login into that same account right from your Conversations App too. The same would apply if you’d created an XMPP account on the Conversations server; you could login to it right from the Movim client.
One client can also communicate with any other. Let’s say you had a friend using the Conversations client, and you were on the Movim client; you could talk to each other no problem through text, or even call each other 1 on 1 with audio or video.
Part 3: The complication :(
But, bit of extra complication; the Conversations client hasn’t yet implemented some of the features Movim is capable of. Specifically, it cannot yet do group audio/video calls or screenshare. So if you’re in a chat room with your friends, and everyone is on Movim except for one friend (who’s using the conversations client on their phone), if you started a group call, that one friend won’t be able to join it.
However (‘But’ part 2); that limitation would only crop up if someone is using the Conversations client/mobile app itself.
If that same friend happened to have a Conversations XMPP account, they could still open Movim in a browser tab on their PC or phone and login to the Movim client with their Conversations account, and then would be able to join the call no problem.
And that’s it! :D
Sorry if I didn’t do the best job explaining that. I’m very much looking forward to the day when Conversations gets those missing features and I only need to explain the first part about how clients and XMPP accounts are separate 😅
As much I agree with the idea of abandoning Discord - honestly, fuck 'em - I just don’t know how I or many other people could practically make the full switch… While I might be able to convince a few of my close friends to go with me to whatever new platform comes about, there’s just no way any larger communities would be able to uproot and leave without losing 90%+ of their members, and that’s only if the owners of those communities are even willing to leave in the first place. Inertia is a powerful thing, and the reality of the situation is that the vast majority of Discord users will not be convinced to leave over this.
I want to defend my privacy, and I want to tell these corporate ghouls to shove it, but at the same time, I don’t want to become a digital hermit. Having to decide between protecting my privacy and cutting myself off from so many valued social connections and communities feels like an impossible choice.
I know I’m not saying anything particularly new or actionable here, I’m just… tired. I’m tired of having to flee from platform after platform into increasingly smaller and more insular corners of the internet to escape the endless cycle of enshittification. I’m tired of what the internet has become, where the only places left where you can exist without being manipulated and exploited by corporate interests are a handful of small, decentralized platforms that are becoming increasingly cut off from the internet at large. I’m just tired of this shit, man.
On this note, I lost contact with a huge number of friends when I deleted my facebook ~15 years ago. Similar for livejournal. I handed out my email address and phone number before I walked away, but people have not used those to contact me at all.
I think people don’t want to put any effort into socialisation. Getting a “feed” is so easy, it feels like you’re connecting with people. You see the comments and likes. But everyone is lonely because they’re not actively interacting, just passively consuming.
“I handed out my email address and phone number before I walked away, but people have not used those to contact me at all.”
Man, do I feel this.
I experienced the exact same thing when I left Facebook. Exactly 3 people I knew from FB bother to keep in touch. I had one friend tell me. Who will bother when I leave Discord?
I truly despise what big tech/social media has turned us into: convenience junkies.
I feel like this article was written for you, based on your last paragraph (the author definitely relates).
Thanks, this article was great. I guess I’ll finally check out XMPP, cause Matrix was… really mid when I tried it a few months ago and put me off. SimpleX was a mess too.
Side note, I get that the movim UI/Client is web only, but does that mean I can’t access Conversations.im (I know the app/client itself is Android only) on movim? I feel a little ashamed that I can’t understand this…
Nothin’ to be ashamed of, we’re all newbies to this at first. I had to learn it too :p
Part 1: How XMPP servers differ from XMPP Clients
Okay, so: Movim and Conversations are both clients that can be used to login to any XMPP account. Those two clients in particular are a little bit more confusing than normal, because they also offer free XMPP accounts on their own XMPP servers (which are independent of the client software).
To try to liken it to something familiar, it’d be like if the Thunderbird email client (which you can login to any email account with) also happened to offer a separate email hosting service too, so you could login to your SomeReallyCoolUsername@thunderbird[.]com from the Thunderbird app.
Or to liken it to how lemmy works, if you’re familiar with the Photon front-end, it can access any lemmy account, even your blahaj account, as it’s just an independent front-end, it’s not actually hosting the lemmy server itself.
Part 2: How it works in practice
So in practice, if you create an XMPP account on Movim’s server, you can login into that same account right from your Conversations App too. The same would apply if you’d created an XMPP account on the Conversations server; you could login to it right from the Movim client.
One client can also communicate with any other. Let’s say you had a friend using the Conversations client, and you were on the Movim client; you could talk to each other no problem through text, or even call each other 1 on 1 with audio or video.
Part 3: The complication :(
But, bit of extra complication; the Conversations client hasn’t yet implemented some of the features Movim is capable of. Specifically, it cannot yet do group audio/video calls or screenshare. So if you’re in a chat room with your friends, and everyone is on Movim except for one friend (who’s using the conversations client on their phone), if you started a group call, that one friend won’t be able to join it.
However (‘But’ part 2); that limitation would only crop up if someone is using the Conversations client/mobile app itself.
If that same friend happened to have a Conversations XMPP account, they could still open Movim in a browser tab on their PC or phone and login to the Movim client with their Conversations account, and then would be able to join the call no problem.
And that’s it! :D
Sorry if I didn’t do the best job explaining that. I’m very much looking forward to the day when Conversations gets those missing features and I only need to explain the first part about how clients and XMPP accounts are separate 😅
If they come, someone will build it