Talking about china? I’d probably classify china as a socialist authoritarian state with its own brand of state capitalism. That they have feared revolution, suppress protests and simultaneously try to be seen as fair and just has probably been a good thing for citizens … unfortunately, the masses are increasingly easy to control, and incentives for good & responsive governance will likely change as a result.
China is socialist, specifically with a socialist market economy. They take counter-revolution seriously, but overall the people in China support the system they’ve collectively made. Over 90% of the population supports the government, and that isn’t because “masses are increasingly easy to control,” it’s because socialism has worked wonders for the people of China.
Further, this meme isn’t purely about China, it’s about liberal analysis of authority. If you don’t see the state by its class character, then socialist states are indeed authoritarian just like capitalist states, but the qualitative difference is that the working class is in control of socialist authority and uses it to oppress capitalists, fascists, and sabateurs. This is “authoritarian,” but unlike capitalist authority it’s used for the working class. This applies to all existing socialism.
It’s a market economy too, of course, but it is capitalist because of the private capital in business. That the state also has representatives in large companies plus is often a minor investor doesn’t remove the capitalist aspect. In other countries you sometimes see unions and workers councils, backed by laws and courts serving similar roles to protect workers and limit excesses in large corporations. China has the ability to refocus its economic policies and priorities far more directly, which is quite cool when you think about the challenges humanity faces. I hope it can stay on a peaceful path.
If 90% of the population really support the government (hopefully without much deception necessary, but perhaps not so important), and the 10% aren’t being persecuted, then that’s wonderful.
The presence of private property does not mean China is capitalist, just like the presence of public property does not mean the US Empire is socialist. What matters is which aspect is principle, and the class character of the state. In China, the large firms and key industries are overwhelmingly publicly owned, and the state is run by the working classes. No mode of production has ever truly been “pure,” and thus treating socialism like some magical, special mode of production is absurd.
Over 90% of Chinese citizens support their system, yes. It isn’t “deception,” and you keep trying to paint China as especially duplicitous and evil, which is borderline chauvanism. In China, capitalists are regularly persecuted, executed, and otherwise kept in control by the socialist state.
I think it’s important to mention that it’s not just the proportion of state owned industries in China. The finance sector is state controlled, which in a capitalist society is how the highest level decisions are made. Anyone who’s read Imperialism will recognize China as a socialist state.
That china is a socialist state is not in question.
We’re talking about its economic system, and I believe “state capitalism” is the right description.
That most of its major industries are state controlled and the biggest firms are SOEs doesn’t change this.
As a side note: There is still a lot of private capital slushing around in China, and many USD-millionaires. There’s still significant inequality. They still have work to do, but that doesn’t detract from what they have achieved.
I think you’re getting hung up on an artificial separation of politics and economics, you should look up a critique of this or investigate why political economy is a useful framework for analysis.
Thanks. I find it quite fascinating, despite the open hostility of some here.
